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 Post subject: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 19th, 2014, 17:35 
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Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012
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Please post any feedback that you have that relates to either Waypoints or any changes that have occurred during the latest test server patches. Bugs that you have found are also welcome.
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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 19th, 2014, 19:40 
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In-game name: Phobophile
* The units brought back with Spires have CD 1 on your own turn at the end of combat. This means that if you kill an opponents skirmisher, it comes back and can instantly attack during your opponent's next turn. This isn't reflected in the description. It now behaves as a board wide Seed of Insurgency.
* Spires only checks its validity at the end of turn. IE: if you kill four units in combat, while spires has CD 1, it spawns all four units back (at CD 1!).
* Slayer counts as a seperate instance for the Undead Unique (Irva). This means it deals four damage after vestige attacks (two damage and the skull-ping). K1110n says this is similar to blast-strike dustrunner, so it might be intended.
* New Growth 3 drop (Terrene Brute) has no subtype, I feel it was intended to be Beast?
* Tabbing out of the game causes and additional music theme to play (old bug)
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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 19th, 2014, 20:03 
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Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013
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In-game name: Nicon
Potential Bugs;

- Halls of Oum Lasa; If your deck graveyard is empty, you won't get the full 3 scrolls to choose between. I only got to choose between 2 scrolls once. You can probably get less, maybe 1 or even 0, not sure.

- Ivra, Voice of the Dead; Hits twice with slayer. If a Slayer Vestige attacks, Ivra will do a ranged attack for both the damage AND the death effect (which is not damage).
I tested this with Curse, it did not trigger it twice.

Potential Problems;

- Halls of Oum Lasa; It pops up at the beginning of your turn, this can cause a misclick. While trying to click a unit on the board, i accidentally chose a scroll.

- Ivra, Voice of the Dead; It can create some questionable plays with Shroud of Unlife. I was curious to see if Shroud of Unlife on Ivra could cause the effect to trigger repeatedly when she attacked, it did not, but when Ivra attacked as an Undead it did not even trigger its passive once, which it should have. A rot eater with shroud of unlife triggered the effect. Shroud of unlife on an Undead unit did not seem to trigger it twice as much. These worked as intended.

Power Shifts;

Harvester; Harvesters are a lot stronger. Restless Bones & Nuru both give it +2 attack, Restless Bones & Flesh Animator decrease its countdown. Putting that aside, it now works with Curse which is a huge buff, Ire & Bile can give it +4 damage. Ivra triggers repeatedly each time Harvester damages something. Its worth keeping an eye on it.

Gravelock Elder; Is very strong. +2 stats to every gravelock is a lot in a gravelock deck, if 5 gravelocks attack and die during an elders lifespan it will have given +10 stats, along with 8 of its own that is a total of 18 stats for 5 resources (Wings Charger has 9 stats, half that). Uhu is also extremely powerful (should exclude itself).


Last edited by Nicon on August 19th, 2014, 20:14, edited 6 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 19th, 2014, 20:08 
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Phobophile wrote:
* Spires only checks its validity at the end of turn. IE: if you kill four units in combat, while spires has CD 1, it spawns all four units back (at CD 1!).

Anima Conduit seems to work in a similar manner. At 1 health it can spawn multiple units if they are killed at the same time. Although if i remember correctly, i think it took damage after each attack so it didn't matter how many died during a turn but how many died during an attack (relentless, piercing, thunder surge, etc.).
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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 20th, 2014, 01:13 
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I noticed with Ancestral Pact in play I didn't seem to be getting draw from units being destroyed by combat damage, spell damage to destroy (like Spark) was working.
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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 20th, 2014, 01:42 
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In-game name: dranreb070
Just so you all know, Death Effects happen by dealing enough damage to a creature in order to kill it, so it will trigger things like Irva and Gravelock Freak. *Source: Mans or Carnalizer, I cannot remember for my life.

About Irva and Shroud, you probably know, but it doesn't trigger of itself because that would result in infinite attacks due to how the scroll is worded. They should probably change it to "When OTHER undead creatures you control..." to prevent confusion/abuse.

And lastly, When a unit is re-summoned with Spires, it is re-summoned as if the player played it from their hand and then counted down by 1, rather than it setting the units cd to 1.

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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 20th, 2014, 01:50 
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dranreb070 wrote:
Just so you all know, Death Effects happen by dealing enough damage to a creature in order to kill it, so it will trigger things like Irva and Gravelock Freak. *Source: Mans or Carnalizer, I cannot remember for my life.


The problem with that is that its so extremely unintuitive.

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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 20th, 2014, 02:34 
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Sorry I should've added in my post that they also said they plan on changing this to not deal damage or change the wording on certain scrolls.

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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 20th, 2014, 06:09 
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rusticdog wrote:
I noticed with Ancestral Pact in play I didn't seem to be getting draw from units being destroyed by combat damage, spell damage to destroy (like Spark) was working.


And I just saw on thepurplepanzy's stream it worked fine, so guess I'm mistaken :)
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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 20th, 2014, 13:32 
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In-game name: DrAkula
Ancestral Pact's effect doesn't seem to linger. It just works the turn it was casted. I just had a game where I played it; then 2 of my guys died, I drew 2 Scrolls. Next turn 4 of my units died and I got nothing.
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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 20th, 2014, 13:58 
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DrAkula wrote:
Ancestral Pact's effect doesn't seem to linger. It just works the turn it was casted. I just had a game where I played it; then 2 of my guys died, I drew 2 Scrolls. Next turn 4 of my units died and I got nothing.


Great, thanks for clarifying there is an issue.
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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 20th, 2014, 19:36 
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In-game name: Ghost_Bomb
I've experienced a bug where I wasn't given the option to mulligan my hand.

This has happened in past Waypoints patches as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 20th, 2014, 23:42 
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013
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In-game name: Squiddy
You can stall a game indefinitely if you have a Sift window open at the end of your turn.
High potential for abuse, should be changed.
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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 21st, 2014, 02:08 
Infantryman
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013
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In-game name: Scrollstam5
Squiddy wrote:
You can stall a game indefinitely if you have a Sift window open at the end of your turn.
High potential for abuse, should be changed.

Was this in Single or Multi Player? It should auto-pick for you when the turn timer runs out (and there's no timer in SP).
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 Post subject: Re: Waypoints Feedback Thread
PostPosted: August 21st, 2014, 02:45 
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I've done some minor testing with the gravelocks, now that we have them all in play.

First impressions: mixed. I'll try and give a brief summary of all the gravelock related scrolls in relation to waypoints, and if the original gravelocks are up to par.

Snargl Omelette

The effect and cost is fine in relation to the effect, but I also think that the 0 scrolls in hand portion is too restrictive to use it effectively. Paying 2 energy to draw 1 scroll is fine, but at times I felt it was very awkward trying to maintain tempo or gain a synergy advantage later by using it.

--Suggestion-- removing "if you have 0 scrolls in hand" from the effect.

Gravelock Freak

On its own, very strong, and also costed correctly for its effect/stats. I see it as a balanced scroll, even with gravelock elder.

--Suggestion-- Nothing.

Gravelock Guard

Balanced, Vanilla scroll.

Lockling Brood

This one, I had trouble with. For 1, the stats and CD are very nice, but I had a problem deciding if the cost was fine in relation to the downside. I think, the potential negative from my play through was worse than the upside of a 4/4 that attacks every turn. If it died, it led to a huge tempo swing for my opponent, and keeping it alive was a tough task.

--Suggestion-- Making it a 3/3 for 3 cost or increasing the health by 1 for 4 cost (if elder remains the same). Reasoning being that the downside is very costly, so it's easily removed, but this change also coincides with a proposed change to Gravelock Elder, which I'll include later in my post.

Uhu Longnose

Quite simply... interesting. I like the idea of it, but I think for a unique it's very weak for what it provides. The upside of the effect is fine, and should be unchanged. I think stat wise it should still allow the player to do a more impactful attack if in-case the effect isn't used.

--Suggestion-- considering it's also unique, I think a full 1/1 buff to attack and health would be good. It can't have duplicates, so the effect is still a decision to make on whether the benefit is better than the damage done that turn. Again, the health coincides with the Elder change later on that I'll be mentioning.

Gravelock Burrows

I like the effect of this, and think that the potential of it could be great. The initial cost though (card wise) is the problem, and with most creatures having 2 CD on average, the effect doesn't last as long as it could to reap potential benefits. Note however, I haven't gotten to get this out in play very often, so I didn't really get to see whether the +2 attack stacks or not per gravelock. If it does, then I think the effect is perfectly balanced.

--suggestion-- Linger: 5. If it doesn't stack, by it's own effect per gravelock in 1 turn, then it feels lackluster in potential benefit. If it does stack, then it's balanced (imo).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Now, onto the old-school gravelocks.

I think, balance wise they were all fine stat-wise before waypoints, but I've always had a problem with Elder in particular.

Gravelock Elder

Elder, for its cost is a decent scroll, but I feel with the stats of the other gravelocks currently, lend to it being a major focal point in making the deck work at all. It's almost too important is what I'm trying to say, and this makes gravelocks very inconsistent. Scrolls like Longnose or Omelette help in fixing this problem, but I have a proposed solution, that I've noticed other people mention already.

--Solution-- Making Elder give attack +1 only, and keep it a 3/5, but for 4. This way, it gives the gravelocks more room to work, and less reliant on elder specifically to stay alive. They won't become super buffed and stay alive longer with an elder, and there's less worry of needing the elder to make gravelocks viable at all. Elder on it's own should be giving a boost to locks, but nothing substantial that makes it a super staple in all lock decks.

I'd also go to say, gravelocks could probably use an alternate elder type scroll to give a defense boost, but maybe additional health gains shouldn't be a thing in energy in the first place. Melee creatures on their own need stats to stand on in the energy faction because there's no positive CD reduction scrolls that solely benefit them, if a player went mono energy. I just don't think the idea of making elder the focal point of making gravelocks function at all is good for interesting players to try and create a competitive deck around them. By buffing the individual scrolls that are weak, and nerfing the elder to an extent, I think it will lead to a more flowing and consistent arch-type that isn't over-powered or broken when multiple elders are out. One last thing though. I've toyed around the idea in my head that maybe a 1/3 melee gravelock raider wouldn't be such a bad idea for energy, if elder was changed, but I hadn't given much thought about it, so maybe it isn't such a good idea. Reasoning: lack of proper CD reduction in energy leads to weak scrolls like raider to get annihilated, unless an elder is out.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about waypoints atm, but I'll be sure to give additional feedback (other waypoint scrolls/synergy) or revise some statements if I notice any differences from play-tests. Thanks for reading.
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