All times are UTC + 1 hour


It is currently July 22nd, 2019, 02:09



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: [Live 1.1.0] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks
PostPosted: January 9th, 2015, 23:16 
General
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013
Posts: 910
In-game name: Squiddy

:decay Decay :decay



Primarily buffs, because damn son.

  • Damning Curse - 5 Decay. Remove Taxing 1. [Because it already has a downside attached to the scroll.]
  • Baleful Witch - Affects structures. Also, clarify her description to: "When Baleful Witch comes into play, Cursed units are dealt Pure damage equal to their Curse value." [Should help give Decay some anti-structure tools, without having to buff Curse spells - which I believe are in a good spot. Oh, and that description change, that's exactly what Baleful Witch does now.]
  • Atrophy - Enchantment. Description: Target unit's Attack is decreased by 5 for 3 Rounds. [Should give this rarely played enchantment almost a Potion of Resistance type of viability]
  • Arthritis - Description: Target creature is dealt magic damage equal to its current Countdown. [The problem with DoT type of effects and enchantments is that they're an investment that rarely pays off, as they are too slow to stop your opponent from making attacks with enchanted unit. This is particularly true when it comes to magic damage dealing enchantments, which no longer can have their damage increased by Curse. Therefore I've turned this into an immediate damage dealer instead, which you can combo with CD increasing tactics found in both Decay and Order.]
  • Bitter Root - 1/2/2. Description: When Bitter Root deals damage to a creature, that creature becomes poisoned. When Bitter Root is attacked in melee combat, the attacker becomes poisoned. [Here's the thing, bitter root already have the animations for attacking - so I figured you might as well make it the first structure with a melee attack.]
  • Infected Gravelock - 1/2/3. No movement restrictions. [Compare this thing to Festering Freak. It cost 1 less, doesn't have the additional poison ability of Festering Freak, yet has a movement penalty. It makes no sense, it's incredibly underpowered - and is a multi-resource supporting unit at that, who should be stronger than average.]
  • Slithering Form - Description: Enchanted melee unit passes through enemy units. [What is that? OP enchantment? Well, not quite. This would essentially allow you to turn a creature into an anti-Idol tool, but it can still be attacked and destroyed by any spell.]
  • Mire Curse - Description: "While an adjacent creature is next to enchanted unit, it is [Poisoned.]". [Now this is a way for Mire Curse to interact with the Miasma Well, while also making it clear to the player on the opposing end what is happening - since this means that the creatures adjacent creatures get the glowy poison effect VX. The way this works mechanically is pretty simple. You move a creature next to Mire Curse, and it gets 1 Poisoned-effect. You move a creature away from Mire Curse or Mire Curse is removed - you get -1 Poisoned-effect.]
  • Grisly Graft - 2 Decay. [See, the thing is, this is already a high risk/high reward enchantment, which at the cost of 3 makes it lean slightly too much on the risk side of the equation. You are always ending up with reduced card advantage as your board presence is reduced, and as such I believe reducing this by 1 cost should be enough to make it more played outside of Harvie combos.]
  • Monstrosity - 3/2/4 [Monstrosity's ability is in essence a value neutral ability, as it can be both a downside as well as an upside. In most cases, it is actually a downside, since most of your units won't be monstrosities - which is why I believe you can give this creature the stats a 3-cost vanilla unit would have]
  • Monstrous Brood - 6 Cost. As a result of of the slight buff above, this needs to be slightly tweaked.
  • Pillar of Disease - 2 Decay. Reduce the Health of opponent creatures by 1. [This is kinda a pseudo armor 1 4-health structure, which at 3 Decay is kinda overcosted. Instead, I've tweaked it to become almost like a mass removal unit - only it requires combat for you to properly take advantage of its effect.]
  • Puppet Soldier - 2 Health, Ward. [This thing is another high risk/high reward scroll, which is kinda leaning too heavily on the high risk side of the equation due to the fact that it is so easily circumvented. As your opponent decides when they get to trigger this, I think that's enough to ensure that the opponent has to activate it through combat - and not be able to just completely ignore it via magic damage or moving it outright. But because it is still a 1-for-1 trade, I've reduced its Health so that your opponent can make advantageous trades with cheaper costed units.]
  • Void Gate (AKA WORST STRUCTURE IN THE GAME) - Description: Any damage dealt to Void Gate is instead dealt to the Idol behind it while the Idol behind it is not destroyed. [I realize that this is a powerful effect, but think about it, you are trading away one Idol for a shield - because that Idol is without doubt going to die. This would actually make it playable, and decks around void gate viable, but it wouldn't win you games more - but rather give you a chance in games you are losing.]
  • Corpus Collector - Magic armor 1. [I actually like this stat distribution for him, and instead of making him a more boring 3/2/4 like every other 4-cost, I figured - why not give him 1 Magic Armor? Yeah, he'd be slightly over the statline, 3-Health is that weak on a 4-cost]
  • Pest Dissimulator - 1/2/5. [Because of the relatively low attack, and an ability that is completely negated by structures, I figured it could do with more lasting power to ensure that it gets a chance to trigger its ability. Mind you, Decay is a resource that doesn't have a single way of making a Ranged unit bypass a structure.]
  • Oum Lasa High Guard - Description: While Oum Lasa High Guard has no friendly unit in front of it, opponent units on the same row have -2 Attack. [This would move the Pillar of Fatigue effect onto a creature instead, which currently has a rather ineffective effect.]

Poison & Stuff

I don't actually think there's a need to change poison in any way with the above changes, other than just increasing consistency in how Poison stuff works. All poison scrolls should be visually distinct at a glance, and all work in the same way mechanically - by relying on the Poison-effect, for synergy with the Miasma Well.

The changes:

  • Ranger's Bane - Spell. Description: Target creature become [Poisoned].
  • Mire Curse - Creatures are [Poisoned] while adjacent to enchanted unit.
  • Blightbearer - 3/2/6. Description: Blightbearer is [Poisoned] when entering play. When Blightbearer is destroyed, all creatures on the same row become [Poisoned].

:growth Growth :growth



Primarily nerfs, because damn son.

  • Binding Root - Description: Enchanted unit cannot move and cannot be moved by spells or enchantments. [Kinda buffed it a bit, now you can't even move it with temporary movement increases or pother.]
  • Bunny - Description: When Bunny counts down to 0, another Bunny is summoned on an adjacent tile. [Bunny.]
  • Earthbond - Description: Enchanted unit cannot be moved by spells or enchantments. Enchanted unit gets +3 Health. [Back to its old effect, which felt a lot more thematically appropriate.]
  • Eye of Eagle - Description: Draw 1 creature scroll from your Library. [See Summons.]
  • Kinfolk Brave - 1/1/2. [This thing is wack powerwise. This way, it's still retaining it's basic function of serving as a stronger target for attack buffs, but it isn't on its own that strong with only 1 attack - which should make it less oppressive in the early game.]
  • Owl - 2/1/1. [Owl basically becomes a reverse Brave. It has the power of the old Brave, but is extra weak because of the 1HP. The Flying I treat as a value neutral trait, as using it comes with a drawback. Even if Flying is a positive trait, I still feel it's possible to add it on for "free", since 1HP creatures generally have additional benefits.]
  • Vengeful Vaettr - 1/2/2. [A minor attack buff, which won't affect it's basic functionality and role, but will widen the counter-plays against it as it can now be negated by -1 attack debuffs.]
  • Crone - *Ward. She now attacks, but same stats. [This would practically force your opponent to trade something with it, or use lobber/ranged.]
  • Earthborn Mystic - 4 Growth. Description: When Earthborn Mystic's Countdown is 0, you may reset its Countdown to draw 1 Enchantment. [This thing is just too much value, so I figured to simplify her a bit and turn her into a slightly poorer Knight Scholar.]
  • Fierce Tactics - 3 Growth. [Do guys even see this thing played? Like ever?]
  • Totem Mask - 4 Growth. [Do guys even see this thing played? Like ever?]

:order Order :order



Nerfs & Buffs

  • Callback - 1 Order. Description: Target unit you control is returned to your hand. If target unit was damaged, draw another Callback. [Slight buff to it that makes it into a pseudo-cantrip, that you can use to callback a regiment of damaged soldiers, to play them the next turn.]
  • Royal Infantryman - Description: Other creatures you control on the same row have +1 Armor, but cannot have more than 2 Armor. [This turn the health buff into an Armor buff, but it is a weaker effect that cannot be stacked up too much. No giving a Gallant Defender or Wings Shield +3 or +4 Armor.]
  • Summons - Description: Draw 1 structure scroll from your Library. [By specifying the source which these tutors draw their scrolls from, you give the player further reasons to pay attention to their library versus discard pile - and increase the design space of tutors in general.]
  • Crown of Strength - Description: Enchanted unit counts as Knight. Enchanted unit gets +1 Attack and +2 Health. [This is a buff to the enchantment, but since enchantments do not combo with resonance like spells they could use some love in Order.]
  • Royal Banner - 7 Order. *Dominion: Your units have +1 Attack. Description: Your units get Countdown decreased by 1 after attacking. [Same health as before, but this is now going to work as a pseudo general of sort, the requirements being that your units actually attack, and that this thing is around long enough. Added Dominion effect for thematic purposes.]
  • Ruse - *Linger: 2. Description: When a unit you control is attacked but not destroyed, it will deal damage equal to its attack value to the attacking unit. [Surely this is more tactical and fun?]
  • Metempsychosis - Description: Target unit is resummoned on the same tile. [Like a pseudo-removal.]
  • Mystic Altar - Description: When Countdown is 0, you may reset Mystic Altar's Countdown and increase Countdown of target unit by 1 to draw 1 scroll. [Slight buff, and although this seems strong, you can compare it to a Knight Scholar, only it costs 1 less and has 1 less health. And it can't attack.]
  • Righteous Partisan - Description: After Righteous Partisan comes into play, if you have fewer units than your opponent, Righteous Partisan gains +1 Attack and +1 Health. [I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me on this change, but my reasoning is that cantrips are a lazy way of buffing scrolls, and often makes no thematic sense. This is a dude fighting for his homeland, and an effect that buffs his strength when his army is outnumbered makes way more sense in my opinion. Furthermore, this would turn him into an "equalizer" when it comes to first-turn advantage, as the 2nd player gets the ability to play a creature which strength is ahead of the stat curve.]
  • Reloras - 3/2/4. *Resonance: Units you control on the same row as Reloras get +1 Attack until the end of turn. [Yep a nerf, but one that makes Reloras himself stronger at the cost of making combo uses with him harder.]
  • Gallant Defender - *Armor 1. Description: As long as you have fewer units than your opponent, Gallant Defender has Armor 2 instead of Armor 1. [Alright, so her effect is harder to trigger, but even when it isn't trigger she still got some defense.]
  • Wings Charger - 5/2/5. [Just make her a really solid unit.]
  • Arby - Resonance will activate before Tempo Theft. [This is more of a bugfix more than anything tbh.]
  • Imperial Resources - No longer heals Units. [I figured that this would be the smallest way of nerfing this, and should give Order players a reason to actually run a Poison-counter - which will lead to the various Order Heals becoming more viable.]
  • Wings Sorceress - Description: Remove all enchantments and effects on target unit. [This would simplify her while simultaneously buffing her when it comes to dealing with Brain Lice/Infectious Blight. ]

:energyEnergy :energy



Not many changes to Energy actually.

  • Rigged - 1 Energy. Description: When enchanted structure is destroyed, the first most opponent unit or Idol on the same row is dealt 4 magic damage. [Unstable really does not belong in Energy imho, and if you want Idol damage it should be done more like this. The precedent for a unit dealing magic damage to something on the same row is already there in End of Reason, so I believe this is a good change to make to this enchantment.]
  • Golem Skin - 1 Energy. Description: When Golem Skin comes into play, adjacent structures are sacrificed. Enchanted creature gains Attack and health equal to the number of structures sacrificed. [Minimizes the effect of this enchantment, and makes it cheaper.]
  • Grave Gruel - Description: Gravelocks have their Countdown increased by 1, are Healed by 1, and gain +2 Attack until they attack. [I figured that an alternative source of attack buffs for the Gravelocks might be interesting. It is a cheaper Crimson Bull, but the downside is that you can't attack the turn you play this.]
  • Feedback Jolt - Description: Deal 3 magic damage to enchanted opponent units and opponent units with Ward. [You can slightly expand upon this spell's ability (in a thematically appropriate way) to make it more playable in mono energy as opposed to Decay/Energy.]
  • Concentrate Fire - 2 Energy. Spell. Description: Target unit Ranged or Lobber unit counts down 1, and makes an extra attack after its next attack this turn. [With Bombard nerfed, you can introduced more "fun" countdown reduction, that have additional effects.]
  • Ember Bonds - Description: Enchanted unit is dealt 3 magic damage before attacking. [Kinda a delayed 3-damage removal scroll, that has a repeat effect. Should contest for Burn, maybe.]
  • Hired marksman - 3/2/3. [Slight buff, while still keeping it within the range of removal. Again, because bombard was nerfed. Compare it to a boom Reaver. For 1 more cost, it gets an ability that allows it to attack any creature on the board.]
  • Cannon Automaton - 5/2/5. [Buff to its stats without changing anything else about it.]
  • Machine Priest - 2 Energy. Machine Priest does not attack. Structures and Automatons you control have +1 Attack. When Machine Priest's Countdown is 0, you may reset its Countdown to move target structure or automaton to a random adjacent tile. [When you think about it, Machine Priest does absolutely nothing on its own since it doesn't attack. Without the units it supports, it is just a movable Useless Contraption - that counts as a creature, and is as such vulnerable to a lot more removals than structures. Therefore, I believe you can not only reduce its cost by 1, but also give it back its old move ability - to now also work on automatons


Subtype changes



I've already sent these off to Mohjang, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to get your feedback on it:

  • Effigy of the Queen - Currently "Totem", should be "Wall" since its primary function is to protect your units from being dealt damage, and it is also in itself a decent wall (Compare to Eternal Structure, another 2-cost 4-health wall with an ability)
  • Nog Nest - Currently "Wall", should be "Forge" since its primary function is to spawn token creatures, much like the Automata Forge.
  • Charge Coil - Currently "Totem", should be "Artillery" since its primary function is to attack opponent units.
  • Fulmination Conduit - Currently lacks a subtype. Should be "Totem" since it is a structure which primary ability is to generate a resource advantage, in otherwords benefit you in a way that the other subtype structures generally don't.
  • Snargl Omelette - Currently "Wall", should be "Totem" since its primary function is benefit you by providing you with card draw.
  • Anima Conduit - Currently "Totem", should be "Forge" since its primary function is to spawn token creatures, much like the Automata Forge.
  • Ether Pump - Currently "Totem", should be "Artillery" since its primary function is to attack opponent units.

I know that you might be reluctant to apply the "Forge" subtype to structures other than Automata Forge, which is why I suggest that "Forge" is renamed to "Spawner".


Last edited by Squiddy on January 27th, 2015, 00:23, edited 19 times in total.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 00:05 
Spearman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014
Posts: 43
In-game name: __j4
I do like the great majority of these changes.

I think you're undervaluing flying by a lot, especially in Growth with Rallying and God Hand as finishers. Izulr does get plenty of love in lategame Growth builds.

I agree that Mire Curse could use a rework, but the way you went about it sounds terribly unintuitive.

Blightbearer sounds way too much on the strong side, especially given that we'll get more ways to heal as time goes on. I think he's in a good spot right now.

Gallant should keep her effect as it is now, just nerf her to 1/2/4 if a nerf is deemed necessary.

And yeah, I really like the way Partisan is right now, but that change does sound fair. Perhaps a bit too strong, even.

Reloras' huge AOE is the fun part about him, if he's too strong then make his effect creature only.

I'd rather see Owl turned back into a 1 drop.

Your reworked Grave Gruel doesn't sound very appealing, and a spell that's essentially a mass enchantment feels awkward. The way it works right now is fine, it might find a combo niche in the future.

Edit: oh and I missed Marksman, that change isn't a "slight buff", it's absolutely bonkers, and something I wouldn't expect coming from someone with so many reasonable suggestions.


Last edited by jay4 on January 10th, 2015, 01:36, edited 1 time in total.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 00:30 
Skirmisher
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 86
Location: Canada!
In-game name: Cradstache
I disagree with you in regards to handling Poison, Squiddy; by consolidating all Poison Damage into the [Poison] effect damage source, you're effectively degrading Poison Damage from damage type into a singular damage source with unique rules. This sets a precipice of do preventing Poison Damage from being dealt without something becoming [Poisoned].

Anyways, I've listed which changes I support, don't really care about, and am against. I'll explain why I'm against any of the changes you list.

Like
---

- Damning Curse
- Atrophy
- Arthritis
- Bitter Root
- Infected Gravelock
- Slithering Form
- Grisly Graft
- Pillar of Disease
- Earthbond
- Eye of Eagle
- Vengeful Vaettr
- Crone
- Earthborn Mystic
- Gusty Izulr
- Summons
- Metempsychosis
- Gallant Defender

Neutral
---

- Baleful Witch
- Monstrosity
- Pest Dissimulator
- Binding Root
- Bunny
- Fierce Tactics
- Sister of the Bear
- Callback
- Royal Infantryman
- Crown of Strength
- Royal Banner
- Ruse
- Mystic Altar
- Righteous Partisan
- Reloras
- Wings Charger
- Arbalestier <- important note: does not affect me using him much; others may rage
- Golem Skin
- Concentrate Fire
- Ember Bonds
- Cannon Automaton

Dislike
---

- Mire Curse
We've discussed this one before: I believe you are complicating this card (and going against my concerns from [my Poison topic](http://www.reddit.com/r/Scrolls/comment ... _thoughts/)). I do not believe *all* Poison Damage should be treated as [Poisoned], which is the direction this change heads in.

- Void Gate
I only listed this under "Dislike" because I would rather just see it given a button for self-destructing it (so the player can choose whether to destroy it whenever they want).

- Kinfolk Brave
I've explained this in the IRC / Skype chat; I would rather see this adjusted to fit the curve starting with Owl, because forcing deckbuilding choices is good:

- 2G Owl (1/1/1; flying)
- 3G Kinfolk Brave (2/1/2)
- 3G Earthborn Keeper (?/1/3)
- 4G Wildling (?/1/4)
- 4G Wetland Ranger (1/1/4; +1globalatk)

- Owl
See above; I've adjusted it to 1/1/1, as it has flying, and can be buffed up rather large with cards like Stag Heart; still 2G cost.

- Grave Gruel
Not much of an issue with changing this, but I would rather just have the old Grave Gruel. Paralykeet's version is just uninteresting as hell (and disadvantageous to play); it's almost like gruel, it's so plain.


- Hired marksman
Make him 5E and we have a deal.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 00:50 
Skirmisher
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014
Posts: 85
In-game name: SilverNightmare
I feel too lazy to make a full write-up, so instead I'll just pick on the stuff I don't like in no particular order.

Your change to Marksman makes him strictly better than Boom Reaver. That's just stupid. And the last thing Energy needs right now is another 3-drop. Plus his ability allows him to bypass positioning. I'll have to side with Crad on this one.

I think Sister of the Bear should have 5 attack rather than 5 health, but that's just me.

The change to Blightbearer is actually a big nerf if you don't remove the poison, because it will be able to attack one less time, you don't get a chance to move him the turn he pops (which allows the opponent to just walk away, even if their units are on the same row as Blighty), and running Miasma Well will just murder your own dude. If you do remove the poison, you now have a super over-statted 4-drop that punishes the opponent for getting rid of it. I get the feeling you didn't think this one through.

The lack of Catapult of Goo/Fulmination Conduit costing 2 disappoints me. :P

And Flying is in fact a positive trait. Using it has a cost, yes, but it still gives you an option that you would not otherwise have and there's no drawback to just having the trait without using it - therefore it should be accounted for in the unit's cost. Buffing Gusty or Owl as much as you're proposing is a no go.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 01:41 
Scholar
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013
Posts: 296
In-game name: K1110n
The only two changes on your list that I feel strongly for or against are the mire curse change and the void gate change. I'm all for that mire curse change because it is quite useless considering the only damage increase it gets is from curse. It could use a bit of tweaking to make it a bit more consistent (and to buff poison decks just enough to hopefully make them viable, mire curse used to be the best poison scroll).

I'm entirely against the void gate change because first off, it's a design competition winner and secondly, adding enchants that "absorb" damage such as my submission called "Lightning Rod" would make it entirely more beneficial and act more like an scavenger construct. Also, the change to void feels too powerful, I mean how are you going to remove it? Tick bomb? Animovore? It would basically be an impenetrable wall that decay could hide all their units behind. Sure you lose an idol, but what about hiding super powerful units behind it where an idol is already destroyed? Without the proper tools I could see this get out of hand much like the enchantment decks aka having a decay enchantment deck much like the growth one with a void gate never to be removed, EVER. Only really energy will be able to deal with that. I know it still allows for counterplay with the fact that void gate will only deal damage to the idol, but, much like the super-mystic, once the unit is buffed, you might as well not try to hit the guard the idol in front of the void gate because they can just remove all creatures. Your only hope would be to get lucky and draw just enough damage to destroy the last idol assuming it's low or behind that void gate. I doubt playing from the hand should be encouraged in that regard.

TL; DR: Void gate seems to powerful, almost like a 4/2/4 wings captain waiting to happen.

Edit: There are two sides to the coin here (aka void gate ruining your life), the main problem I've found with void gate is that there's just not enough synergy even with the proposed change. Trust me, I've tried to make it work and failed miserably which is why I've put all my trust in new scrolls, hoping they will have synergy.

_________________
Minecraft is to Terraria as Hearthstone is to Scrolls
DECAY WILL RISE AGAIN
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 05:20 
General
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013
Posts: 910
In-game name: Squiddy
Hm, I'm not sure either what I was thinking with that Hired Marksman change :P
Changed it to 4-cost, 3/2/3.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 12:56 
Newcomer
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013
Posts: 6
In-game name: Tywnis
Thanks for using my suggestion to Arthritis ! ;)
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 13:01 
General
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013
Posts: 910
In-game name: Squiddy
Tywnis wrote:
Thanks for using my suggestion to Arthritis ! ;)

It was a lot simpler :D
And it is a neat effect.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 13:59 
Newcomer
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015
Posts: 5
In-game name: QuickNFatal
I really like these, getting LGO in-line without sacrificing IR and with that most other order decks, toning down aggro growth a bit, making decay have less useless scrolls and buffing up MER a little..

I do think your C-fire would be rather dangerous without changing iron whip as well, giving MER 12 CDR scrolls might be a bit much. Overall though I think the game might become more interesting with these changes in-play.

(Also arby triggering after Tempo theft is a bug?.. I mean it'd make sense for all other CCG's to trigger before it because of the chain order.. but is that also how that works in scrolls?)
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 14:09 
General
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013
Posts: 910
In-game name: Squiddy
TheLordCrimson wrote:
I really like these, getting LGO in-line without sacrificing IR and with that most other order decks, toning down aggro growth a bit, making decay have less useless scrolls and buffing up MER a little..

I do think your C-fire would be rather dangerous without changing iron whip as well, giving MER 12 CDR scrolls might be a bit much. Overall though I think the game might become more interesting with these changes in-play.

(Also arby triggering after Tempo theft is a bug?.. I mean it'd make sense for all other CCG's to trigger before it because of the chain order.. but is that also how that works in scrolls?)

Currently, abilities on units will trigger before the spell effect (Metal Wonder, Echomaton, Snargl, Lockling Brood), but Resonance is inconsistent in that it triggers after the spell effect.

Tweaked Void Gate a bit:

Quote:
Description: Any damage dealt to Void Gate is instead dealt to the Idol behind it while the Idol behind it is not destroyed.


Also added Imperial Resources, which I had forgotten to add actually.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 15:15 
Infantryman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014
Posts: 22
In-game name: Hoodedjerk
When i started to play, then poison can't be removed by heal effects. When i started to play again i experienced it is doing...
But i think if the posion is removed from the units by heal, the healing effect should be removed too.
That can bring back poison decks into the game.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 16:20 
Scholar
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013
Posts: 330
In-game name: siRisacc
Your logic in calling the Arby + Tempo Theft combo a bug is flawed. When playing a spell, the spell must resolve to count as having played a spell. The two Energy (Echomaton and Metal Wonder) scrolls set a terrible precedent that a resonance type ability should trigger before the spell resolves. This is simply unintuitive and limits gameplay for the sake of buffing a faction that needed lots of help.

" [Action happens] every time you play a Spell." This is the in game definition of Resonance. The only question of logic in the text becomes; what is the definition of "play"? So in a sense, what does it mean to play something? If you announce you are playing something, have you played it? No. Merely stating something will occur is not enough to merit having played it. Something must happen for it to count as being played! For example; to have said that "I played Scrolls," you must have played a match, thus evidence thay you have played Scrolls exists, because there was an action taken. The evidence of a spell must similarly exist, of which being the spell effect!

Basically, resonance needs a spell played to activate, and a spell must resolve before it is counted as having been played. There is not a bug in the Arby + Tempo Theft combo. If anything the bug in logic lies with Echomaton and Metal Wonder.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 16:40 
Newcomer
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015
Posts: 5
In-game name: QuickNFatal
siRisacc wrote:
Your logic in calling the Arby + Tempo Theft combo a bug is flawed. When playing a spell, the spell must resolve to count as having played a spell. The two Energy (Echomaton and Metal Wonder) scrolls set a terrible precedent that a resonance type ability should trigger before the spell resolves. This is simply unintuitive and limits gameplay for the sake of buffing a faction that needed lots of help.

" [Action happens] every time you play a Spell." This is the in game definition of Resonance. The only question of logic in the text becomes; what is the definition of "play"? So in a sense, what does it mean to play something? If you announce you are playing something, have you played it? No. Merely stating something will occur is not enough to merit having played it. Something must happen for it to count as being played! For example; to have said that "I played Scrolls," you must have played a match, thus evidence thay you have played Scrolls exists, because there was an action taken. The evidence of a spell must similarly exist, of which being the spell effect!

Basically, resonance needs a spell played to activate, and a spell must resolve before it is counted as having been played. There is not a bug in the Arby + Tempo Theft combo. If anything the bug in logic lies with Echomaton and Metal Wonder.


Generally in CCG's things played or activated the last will be the first to resolve, which for scrolls would mean that arby would trigger before tempo theft.

The reason for this would be to let counter spells(magic) or traps(yu-gi-oh) react to whatever is played.

Example:
-Player 1 spawns a creature.
-Player 2 uses a card to stop the creature from spawning.
-Player 1 uses a card to stop the effect of player 2's card to activate.

Now if stuff activated in the order they where played the first creature would be spawned making player 2's card useless but if player 2 used the card before player 1 spawned a creature it would resolve(killing the creature) before player 1's counterspell would stop it.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 16:57 
Scholar
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013
Posts: 330
In-game name: siRisacc
TheLordCrimson wrote:
Generally in CCG's things played or activated the last will be the first to resolve, which for scrolls would mean that arby would trigger before tempo theft.

The reason for this would be to let counter spells(magic) or traps(yu-gi-oh) react to whatever is played.

Example:
-Player 1 spawns a creature.
-Player 2 uses a card to stop the creature from spawning.
-Player 1 uses a card to stop the effect of player 2's card to activate.

Now if stuff activated in the order they where played the first creature would be spawned making player 2's card useless but if player 2 used the card before player 1 spawned a creature it would resolve(killing the creature) before player 1's counterspell would stop it.


My argument is based on how interraction in scrolls occur and the wording used in game. Other games examples are not in question here. I would however, like to see the cards you speak of and how they are worded.


If such a scroll was designed in Scrolls I would think it would contain wording similar to this:

"Before a spell played by your opponent resolves, do X."

This would allow interaction between the spell effect and the casting of a spell as you have mentioned. But as of now, no such wording exists in Scrolls.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: [Balance] Nerfs, buffs, and lateral tweaks post-release
PostPosted: January 10th, 2015, 21:00 
General
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013
Posts: 910
In-game name: Squiddy
Weird wording is a Mojang thing.
There's nothing in the game that uses the term "resolve", so they'd have to first explain what that means - which isn't very Mojang:y.

Anyway, I'm not too fussed about which order the things are triggered, but since Mojang has stated they'd like for unit abilities to trigger before the spells - that's what I'm adding to the list.
Top
  Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to: