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 Post subject: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: August 14th, 2014, 21:50 
Spearman
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In-game name: Luigisopa
Flipping an opponent to a tile on the same row as Oculus Cannon does not trigger it but the wording says so! It is a bug. It needs to be reworded or something.

Cannon:
Image
When an opponent unit moves to a tile on the same row as Oculus Cannon, Oculus Cannon's Countdown is set to 0.

Flip:
Image
Move target opponent unit to any unoccupied tile on opponent's board.

I am moving it so the cannon should trigger.

To be clear it works with Pother too:

Pother:
Image
Target unit is moved to a random adjacent tile. Draw 1 scroll.

So let the flipping begin!
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 03:15 
Spearman
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Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013
Posts: 42
Is the opponent unit moving?

... or are you moving the opponent unit?

(It's a zen koan... hahah)
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 04:02 
Skirmisher
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014
Posts: 86
In-game name: Brothbrain
Agreed:
Saying any of them would mean that the object has moved.

'Move target opponent unit' <= the unit moves
'Target unit is moved' <= the unit moves
'When a unit moves to a tile' <= the unit did move

Based on this I would say they should both work. Otherwise I think neither should work. For one to work and the other not to is kind of confusing. My guess for this would be in the coding.

My Guess on the Reason:
I would guess Oculus Cannon listens or is triggered inside a unit's move() method or function. Pother would just tell the unit to call its move() method, which would activate Oculus Cannon. Flip probably does a method of skipping the move() function by simply hard coding "This unit moves to tile x,y and the other moves to tile 'v,w' ". They would need to completely revamp the move() method or have Flip check for any Oculus Cannons on the grid.

The reason they probably didn't use the move() command is because it is set up to move one tile at a time. When you have a unit with Move 2, you move it one tile at a time. Therefore, pother would have to give the unit Move infinity until the end of turn so it can get to the target tile. Also, if the unit you were 'Flipping' was blocked from the adjacent tile (surrounded by other units), it wouldn't be able to move() though those units. The unit would need a clear path from its starting position to the end position.

This was probably just something overlooked and nobody seemed to care that much about it so it was left alone.

I don't know how the game is really coded:
I'd also like to point out I really have no idea how the game is coded. I've come to the conclusion that this is how I probably would have initially coded move() and I wouldn't have changed it for just one scroll that doesn't share its ability with anything else.
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 07:10 
Vanguard
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Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014
Posts: 128
In-game name: Hroswaladr
Peon's koan may be just a joke, but he does hit the Nog on the Nest:

In the game the word 'move' relates to two different concepts:
1. 'move' = scrolls keyword: 'a valid action a unit can execute to occupy another tile',
2. 'move' = generic, transitive verb (user action): 'to change the position of <an object>',

The Oculus Cannon is meant to trigger on 1.
- Flying = (type of) 1: so 'executing a flying Owl move' should trigger the canon,
- Pother = 1: 'tell the unit to execute a valid move in a random direction', so should trigger the canon (you don't move it, you tell/ask it to move and then the unit moves)
- Transposition = 2: 'user switches/interchanges places of two units', so neither of the units executed a valid keyword move, and so should NOT trigger the canon,
- Flip = 2: 'user moves/places/puts unit on occupied tile' does not involve a unit executing a valid keyword action, so should NOT trigger the canon

The same holds for things like Searing Shackles: damage on move/fly/Pother, no damage on Transposition or Flip.

So it is consistent (not a bug), but I totally agree that the wording on the cards should be more precise if these subtle differences can have a significant effect in the game.
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 14:24 
General
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013
Posts: 910
In-game name: Squiddy
Flip and flying should say "onto a tile", to differentiate it with moving "to a tile."
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 15:04 
Scholar
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Posts: 342
In-game name: Arc_Proxima
Squiddy wrote:
Flip and flying should say "onto a tile", to differentiate it with moving "to a tile."


Filp: "Target opponent unit is removed from it's current tile and placed onto an unoccupied tile on opponent's board" (unless we want the cannon to trigger..?)

Occulus cannon should trigger on flying units.
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: September 27th, 2014, 02:56 
Infantryman
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013
Posts: 10
Just going to explain the mechanic a bit, from my observations

Fly is literally flip (itself) into any tile. Flip and flip type effects does the following by default:

Unsummon the creature
Summon it in the square
Return all stats it had before

For a while it did funny things like retriggering come-into-play effects, "battlecry" if you will. That was fixed a bit back. I dont think it uses the typical move command. At least, it doesnt use the animation.

I suspect the move commands require a slight rework to account for new mechanics like flying or check for move.

I'm just rambling randomly now...
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: September 27th, 2014, 03:56 
General
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In-game name: Nicon
To me it makes sense. I would agree that the wordings can cause misunderstandings. Oculus cannon triggers when a unit moves in the row. Move is a mechanic, each creature can move once per turn, this move triggers oculus. Pother you push the unit, you force it to make a move onto a random adjacent tile. With flip the unit is not moving but being placed, you are taking the unit and putting it somewhere else, Fly is the same by design, a unit with fly can either move to an adjacent tile or fly somewhere. If you imagine it as a tripwire running across the row then normal moves and pother would cause a unit to snag on the tripwire but if a unit flies or is placed there it avoids the tripwire by going over it.
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: October 3rd, 2014, 23:40 
Spearman
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Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013
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In-game name: teedle
Why cant the cannon just go to 0 countdown when anything becomes in front of it that wasn't before? That wouldn't make it overly good would it?
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: October 4th, 2014, 06:10 
Vanguard
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In-game name: Hroswaladr
Yes it would. That's why it doesn't.
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: October 4th, 2014, 21:28 
Spearman
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Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013
Posts: 34
In-game name: teedle
Hroswaladr wrote:
Yes it would. That's why it doesn't.


well as it is now, i have literally never played against it once haha
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: October 5th, 2014, 06:56 
Vanguard
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Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014
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In-game name: Hroswaladr
Ok :). From my experience nearly every ranged / structure Energy deck runs them. Very efficient in combination with Bombard and the new Overdrive buff.
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: March 15th, 2015, 17:11 
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Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013
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In-game name: BrotherDoggie
If Oculus Cannon triggered every time something occupied a tile where nothing was before, opponents wouldn't be able to summon creatures onto that tile, which would be broken in its current state. However, Flip definitely should trigger, I agree. Also any ranged or structure oriented deck has them because they're solid scrolls to have.
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 Post subject: Re: Flipping into Oculus Cannon!
PostPosted: June 25th, 2015, 08:31 
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Based on this I would say they should both work. Otherwise I think neither should work. For one to work and the other not to is kind of confusing. My guess for this would be in the coding.
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